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View Full Version : In Mexico, a legal breakdown invites brutal justice


Baldy
12-09-2010, 09:12 AM
As I've watched what's been happening in Mexico for the last few years, I've been wondering when the regular people would get tired enough of what's been going on, that they would take matters into their own hands.

It seems like it's starting. I see two major problems with what's going to be happening soon.

First, the vigilantes will get out of control and start acting against people for the wrong reasons. Second, the officials will get scared that they will be next, so they will all of a sudden respond heavily against the vigilantes, because they know they will probably be next to be punished by the vigilante justice.



In Mexico, a legal breakdown invites brutal justice


IN ASCENCION, MEXICO -- In this dusty farm town, an hour south of the U.S. border, more than 40 people were abducted - one a week - in the first nine months of the year.

Then, on Sept. 21, the kidnappings stopped.

That was the day a gang of kidnappers with AK-47s burst into Lolo's seafood restaurant and tried to abduct the 17-year-old cashier. A mob of enraged residents chased down two of the teenage attackers and lynched them in a cotton field on the edge of town.

"We're not proud of what happened," said Georgina "Coca" Gonzalez, who helped form an armed citizens' group after the incident to fight crime and prevent kidnappings. "But we're united now - the whole town. And we all want justice."

Across the country, and especially in northern Mexico, the breakdown of the legal system is giving way to a wave of vigilante violence. As Mexicans grow frustrated with the depredations of drug mafias and the corruption and incompetence of authorities, some are meting out punishment the old-fashioned way, taking an eye for eye, or in some cases, an eye for a tooth.

Some of these retributive acts have happened spontaneously, such as the Ascencion "uprising," as many here have celebrated it. But other killings in the past year appear to have been carried out by shadowy forces who have left bodies along highways or hanging from bridges with handwritten notes that advertise the dead as "extortionists" or "kidnappers."

Mexico has a long history of rough justice carried out by citizens, but it has traditionally occurred in isolated villages, in the mountains or jungles, often among Mexico's indigenous peoples.

Today, vigilante groups appear to be at work even in major cities.

Late last year, authorities discovered four bodies, including an alleged Monterrey gangster, Hector Saldana, and his two brothers, in a car in Mexico City. The deaths were announced by Mauricio Fernandez, the new mayor of the Monterrey suburb of San Pedro Garza Garcia, even before police identified the bodies.

Fernandez said he had nothing to do with the killings, although he boasted of his plans to create "cleansing teams" to rid his city of criminals.

"Sometimes coincidences happen in life. It's better to see it that way," Fernandez told a Monterrey newspaper.

'Social cleansing'

In Ciudad Juarez, the epicenter of violence, murder suspects seem more likely to end up dead than appear before a judge. Several days after gunmen massacred 13 people at a party there in October, two heads were found in plastic bags on the hood of a car with a note warning, "This is what happens to those who kill women and children."

Gustavo de la Rosa, a top human rights official in Chihuahua, Mexico's most violent state, said the flood of killings and other crimes in recent years has resulted in the "collapse" of the legal system, leaving frustrated citizens to view raw vengeance as their only recourse.

"First, people wait for the government to deliver justice," de la Rosa said. "Then they move onto the next phase, when they go looking for it themselves. I think we're now at the beginning of the second stage."

"We won't take it anymore," said Victor Hernandez, a block captain delegated to oversee security in Ascencion, which the group has divided into quadrants.

Mexican gun control laws limit citizens to owning smaller-caliber weapons and a handful of bullets for home defense, but group members said they were not going to leave themselves vulnerable and outgunned.

In Ascension, the group has erected a siren tower, like the kind that might warn residents in Kansas of an impending tornado, to alert everyone in town that a kidnapping is in progress. Members of the group then quickly mobilize and block the highway that passes through town.

With support from local officials, the group has also dug a trench around the town, wide and deep enough that a vehicle could not escape by driving off-road.

Members of the group said they plan to turn suspects over to authorities but were prepared to "disappear" them if authorities fail to do their jobs. The body of a suspected stereo thief was found on the edge of town in October, as rumors circulated that he too had been lynched.

"This whole country is suffering," said Fernando Saenz, the citizen group's elected leader. "It's time for the people to take over, because the government isn't doing its job. We have to take care of ourselves."

Saenz, 63, was one of the residents who attacked the kidnappers on Sept. 21. Some in the crowd broke their hands and wrists as they pounded the suspects furiously, he said.

Federal police pulled the kidnappers from the mob, and then handcuffed and locked them in a police vehicle. As the crowd swelled, chanting "Kill them! Kill them!" and "We want justice!" residents blocked the police from leaving or landing helicopters.

Already bloodied from the beating, the kidnapping suspects died inside the sweltering-hot police vehicle. No one was charged, which is not surprising given the huge crowd and the widespread public support for what happened.

"These people are farmers; they're not murderers," said Julian Lebaron, a leader of the large Mormon community south of Ascension. "I don't approve of the lynching here in Ascencion, but the spirit of what happened here is what we need in Mexico."

In his own town, Lebaron said residents have erected a watchtower, and each night two men climb the ladder and peer out into the darkness through night-vision goggles. Asked what they would do to stop a kidnapping or assault, Lebaron said, "We would call the authorities, but we wouldn't sit around and wait for them to come help us. We would defend ourselves."

Link to the article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/08/AR2010120806379.html?nav=rss_email/components)

LEFT
12-09-2010, 09:48 AM
If the corruption and violence was restricted to the Mexican side of the border I'd not care a whole bunch, (I don't live there), but it does seem to be spilling out onto our side of the border in the face of our authorities unchecked.

My simple solution (I am a simpole man of simple mind) is to "invite" Mexico to be our next coupla states and whutknot. I mean, they do seem to be making thier problem our problem, right? Let's fixit. Bring us to them instead of fighting them coming to us.

eazy squeazy lemon peazy

the rich culture they offer our meltin pot, (not to mention the food, right?) could enhance our collective experience.....and the oil would be kinda kew too...two birds with one stone...end our border issues and offer one of those birds to the middle east and their oil we'd no longer need.

4nik8
12-09-2010, 07:24 PM
invite" Mexico to be our next coupla states

:neutral:

We're already running a record deficit trying to care for citizens in this country....and Obama care hasn't even kicked in yet.


Just an observation.

LEFT
12-10-2010, 10:14 AM
um...you missed the part about the oil. lots and lots of oil. el mucho de oil-o and whutknot. oil = Ameros. they are coming here anywho and will continue to do so....

let's bring here to them!

OPERATION CONQUISTADOR!

with liberty and justice for all



after that we can nail down Canadia...

(globs of oil oot and aboot there eh?)

Ann Coulter for Gov of Canadia!



oh sure. we can make this work!

Buschman
12-10-2010, 10:57 AM
Lots and lots of oil huh? And what would we do with it? Same thing we do with all the oil that already comes from our home turf like in Alaska.....pipe it onto a tanker and sell it to somebody else,... in order to pay for the oil we buy from the middle east.

Buschman
12-10-2010, 06:41 PM
You know what else Mexico has?

They has lot's of women's. And they is "virgin's 3 times."

We can get them all to be part of the America's and get them to join the forums and tell them "we can do them!"

OPERATION DOS EQUIS GIRLS!!!!

---

4nik8
12-10-2010, 07:31 PM
um...you missed the part about the oil. lots and lots of oil. el mucho de oil-o and whutknot. oil = Ameros. they are coming here anywho and will continue to do so....

let's bring here to them!

OPERATION CONQUISTADOR!

with liberty and justice for all



after that we can nail down Canadia...

(globs of oil oot and aboot there eh?)

Ann Coulter for Gov of Canadia!



oh sure. we can make this work!

Couple things that seem lost on you.
Mexico owns the oil and is broke.
The only windfall would be for them in the form of our tax dollars.

WE have MASS quantities of oil
But, because of the deal made with OPEC, designed to ensure crude is traded in US DOLLARS, we can't pump it domestically..

So, thanks but no thanks...we're having a hard enough time feeding our own as it is..

Bring the troops home...there's saved funds.
Use illegal immigrants, giving the US a big "FUCK YOU" by coming in illegally, as moving target practice to keep the soldiers skills up.

Just THAT sarcastic example solves a shit ton of problems..most notably the problems of illegals, anchor babies, corps intentionally low balling wages because illegals will work for that wage, crime will drop, our black hole of resources going out with little to nothing in the way of taxes coming in to replenish it....


etc etc etc...the list could go on but no point in beating (sense into) a dead horse.

Buschman
12-10-2010, 07:42 PM
Bring the troops home...there's saved funds.

And saves lives.

A-men.

Now that speaks volumes.

LEFT
12-11-2010, 05:59 AM
well boy howdy

seems the most important componant in my post was lost on BOTH of you!

buuuut that don't 'spize me none...yer both cut from the same cloth

,,,,and a whutknot

Buschman
12-11-2010, 01:10 PM
Gettin' back on topic here...

OIL!,..There's OIL in them there Mexrican hills!

----

Cruzr
12-12-2010, 02:41 PM
I used to drive down to Tiujana all the time{about a 2 hr drive}. Take in the bullfights and dog racing,then Jai Lai games at night. made a fun day. I wouldnt step one toe over the border now, its very dangerous down there.

Buschman
12-12-2010, 02:58 PM
OIL is worth the danger...LOL

Cruzr
12-12-2010, 03:03 PM
fuck em...........let em kill each other.........sooner or later the country will get tired of druglords running everything. the goverment is corrupt, always has been but not this bad.

Baldy
12-12-2010, 08:27 PM
fuck em...........let em kill each other.........sooner or later the country will get tired of druglords running everything. the goverment is corrupt, always has been but not this bad.



That was sort of my point with the OP. The people there are getting tired of what's been going on and are starting to fight back.

LEFT
12-12-2010, 11:07 PM
truth and justive always prevail

4nik8
12-13-2010, 12:35 AM
well boy howdy

seems the most important componant in my post was lost on BOTH of you!

buuuut that don't 'spize me none...yer both cut from the same cloth

,,,,and a whutknot

Just had to point out how cute I found that.



The whole gist of your post was to annex Mexico.(then Canada)

I listed myriad reasons why it's a failed idea from the start.

And apparently, I lost you using logic.


I personally think they should be left to handle their own business.
Mexico is rich on resources...it's problem is that it is also rich in corruption.

We pour BILLIONS every year into that country to fight the "Drug War" and so far the only thing that's happened is more corruption, more deaths, blame laid on America and more drugs coming across the border.

Cut em off, seal the borders and let em slug it out till Darwins Law prevails..
then try and reason with THAT lot.

Buschman
12-13-2010, 06:55 AM
That was sort of my point with the OP. The people there are getting tired of what's been going on and are starting to fight back.

Fight back with what? They intend on throwing rocks at well armed drug cartel folks? Count on their military to handle it all?

Only way they can "fight" back is if you make the odds even. Only way to do that,..is give the man on the street a big gun, or outfit their military with state of the art gear, which we have done to an extent I reckon. But then,..what you might have is another Northern Ireland.

4nik8
12-13-2010, 07:58 AM
Fight back with what? They intend on throwing rocks at well armed drug cartel folks? Count on their military to handle it all?

Only way they can "fight" back is if you make the odds even. Only way to do that,..is give the man on the street a big gun, or outfit their military with state of the art gear, which we have done to an extent I reckon. But then,..what you might have is another Northern Ireland.

They have weapons...

think Revolutionary War.

A bunch of farmers kicked one the mightiest military's asses.

Buschman
12-13-2010, 10:20 AM
I think times have changed a little since then Nik.

A bunch of farmers kicked one the mightiest military's asses.


Those farmers are the ones who are probably the ancestors of the drug cartel folks now.

LEFT
12-13-2010, 10:26 AM
nik

humor

obvious

duh

and whutknot

I could give a rat's ass about Mexico (I don't live there) as long as their shit don't spill over into Texas.

4nik8
12-13-2010, 12:00 PM
obvious

Not so much

derp
js

I could give a rat's ass about Mexico (I don't live there) as long as their shit don't spill over into Texas.

But they already are...

kinda why I took you seriously..

4nik8
12-13-2010, 12:13 PM
I think times have changed a little since then Nik.

Those farmers are the ones who are probably the ancestors of the drug cartel folks now.

I think you're underestimating the ingenuity of a bunch of pissed off people.

But, that's the key...they'd all have to get mad and make a UNITED stand.

Of course, if the gubment of Mexico gave a shit, they'd declare martial law, use the Military, and eradicate the problem.

Corruption can only go so far, and if using the military force under martial law, they could declare WAR on the cartels, use general court martials and put dissenters to death...on the spot...in the field...

thats a hell of a deterrence for moles and rats amongst your ranks..